Content added Content deleted

Inline

Revision as of 21:06, 6 September 2010

Archived sections

Put new stuff below here

Contributions question

What does "top" mean in the "my contributions" list ? I think I could't figure it out so far! Ulrie

Oops!

I uploaded a new version of [this image]. I accidently upload a 3mb version. How do I delete the image so it isn't hoarding storage space? Chris Ferri 19:47, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Let me worry about bandwidth and server storage space. The server made thumbnails, so as long as those are what get embedded in various places, things should be fine.

That said, if you want to replace the file, try the "upload new version" link that's on that page somewhere. --Michael Mol 19:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Hm. That image could probably use a run through pngcrush, though. GIF might work as a better format, too; 8-bit palettized, with LZMA compression, works nicely for some scenarios. Play around with it. :) --Michael Mol 19:51, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

K, thank you for the help. Chris Ferri 20:19, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

LabVIEW

So, for LabVIEW, the optimal solution is to actually upload the vi containing the solution code rather than upload an image of the code. Would that be OK, or would that consume too much storage space? LabVIEW vi's can be anywhere from 7KB to several megs. --Chris Ferri

Hm. That's actually a very, very interesting problem. First, MediaWiki (what this site runs on) limits allowed upload file types. I can modify that, but that wouldn't be a good policy habit to get into. Additionally, a 7KB block of source code would be a rather large segment to inline into a page--and MW can OOM on multi-megabyte pages. (That's assuming the .vi files were human-readable.) So while uploading the .vi files is the optimal solution from a code execution standpoint, it's not practically workable. That leaves screenshots, assuming there's enough information in the screen shot for the user to build the solution.

Now you've got me seriously pondering something like mercurial as a back-end for holding the source code--that would efficiently handle the scenario. It would also require a massive redesign of how the site software works.

Can screen shots work? (I think you're replying to something, but I don't know off-hand where the other part of this conversation took place.) --Michael Mol 14:56, 14 July 2010 (UTC) 11:17, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

If I could chime in on the subject, I think it would be a good idea to have both the image and the vi file itself. The image would give a general idea of what the program looks like to someone who's not familiar with or does not own LabVIEW. But that alone could potentially make it very tedious to try. Some LabVIEW programs can grow to be quite large and could be time-consuming to re-write. A downloadable version could be a huge time saver for those who own a version of it. So I would recommend having an image and a download link, if possible. --Tyrok1 16:14, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Really, I agree. The problem, though, is a technical one; I don't have an effective means of allowing the upload and storing of .vi files. --Michael Mol 16:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok well below are the front panel and block diagram for heap sort implemented in LabVIEW. This vi in my opinion represents the average labVIEW vi. My problem with this is the only way to see the other cases and nested functions etc would be to upload an image of them as well. This could lead to potentially many dozens of images needed to show all the cases in a case structure etc. And, anybody wanting to use this code won't have the ability to run the code without all of these images from which to recreate these functions. I have no idea how your file hierarchy is setup, but one solution to the storage problem would be to create a "labVIEW" folder in which you can place all files with a .vi file extension that are uploaded.--Chris Ferri

The least tractible problem stems from implementation limitations: MediaWiki file uploads are limited by PHP settings on the server, which are in term adjusted with an eye towards resource usage (most notably memory, but disk usage is something I'd be worried about as well.). The best practicable solution I could provide would be a sideband upload mechanism such as a source code repository that used MediaWiki credentials for authentication. Doable, and has interesting and useful side effects wrt the rest of the site, but that'd take planning. I actually had a face-to-face conversation with Tyrok1 today, where he explained to me some of the limitations of the screenshot approach, so I understand your problem. I just don't have the time to implement it right now. --Michael Mol 22:39, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

No probs. It's not a huge issue for me to be unable to upload the LabVIEW solutions. I'm more interested in staying in practice and solving the tasks on this site give me a good way to do that. But, when or if this site is ever capable of handling LabVIEW solutions to programming tasks, I'd happily take the time to upload all of them. Until then, I see no point in uploading screen shots of the code without the source to go along with it (for people who use labVIEW). As you can see, even trivial algorithms are difficult to decipher without labVIEW's profile and debug tools.--Chris Ferri

Has anyone asked the company that creates LabVIEW if they have a way to textually dump its programs for use on sites such as this? I can see that a non-graphical, but still 'meaningful' textual form might be useful to others.(They could output a version in graphviz dot format for example). --Paddy3118 05:06, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Not AFAIK, but I did learn that the .vi file contains positional data for blocks and connections, that the blocks are generally very simple, that most meaningful programs wind up constituted of a huge number of blocks, and that all that data for all those very simple blocks adds up. I don't know how much it supports by way of linked-in libraries and code-reuse. If there were a textual format, I'd be surprised if some third-party tools for library processing and such didn't crop up. --Michael Mol 14:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

There is no way to textually represent the G source code. It would be pointless, because the source for a labVIEW vi not only contains the positioning info for the visual programming elements, but also hidden labVIEW processes running in other threads. It would be harder to decipher than a picture of the block diagram. So, I do have the option of uploading the vi's to the LabVIEW Developer Zone, and then link to them from there. But, I am hesitant to do so because I don't know what license user created programs are licensed under. --Chris Ferri

Multilingual

Are you going to ever introduce a multilingual in Rosetta Code?

A what? --Michael Mol 18:46, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Like into Wikipedia. Sorry, i.e. adding multi-language. --DCamer 18:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm still not clear on what you're trying to say. Is English your best language? If not, try giving a full description in a language you're comfortable with, and I'll throw it through, e.g. Babelfish and possibly another native speaker. Might be easier that way. --Michael Mol 18:55, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you plan to add to the site other languages except English? (comfortable to me: Планируете ли вы добавлять на сайт другие языки кроме Английского?). --DCamer 19:01, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean! I don't know how practical that would be on MediaWiki. The source code itself should be common between all human languages, even if the individual descriptions and the rest of the pages would not be. I don't think it will happen while the site runs on MediaWiki, but it's definitely something I would plan to allow for if/when a suitable alternative can be implemented. --Michael Mol 19:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

You could do it via subdomains like Wikipedia does -- like en.rosettacode.org vs ru.rosettacode.org. -- Eriksiers 19:10, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

That's not the problem. The problem is that the core content, the lang-by-task matrix of examples, is reasonably correct for all languages, but the supporting description and explanation isn't. The way the examples are currently presented on the site, we would see the example code for any lang-task point diverge, without an effective way to resolve updates and differences between the various languages. (Granted, even with code fixedly common between all human languages, you still run into quirks of variable names and comments. Adding locale support to source code presentation would be a daunting (though interesting) task in itself!) --Michael Mol 19:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I see. Yes, you're right, Mediawiki is probably unsuitable as-is. Oh well. -- Eriksiers 20:22, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

So there is extension Interwiki and manual :). I tried on the local machine - no problem. --DCamer 21:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

We have InterWiki, but the problem is that we'd want to transclude the code itself across all languages, because the code itself should be common to all human languages. There are two problems with transclusion. First, the code examples would need to be separated from page content (which I already believe needs to happen, personally), with the English and Russian versions of the site transcluding from them. Second, with the transclusion, it's not trivial to make a change to a code example; you would have to navigate to the sourced page and make the change there. (If that second part weren't a problem, I would have already addressed the first part by breaking out the code examples into the "Example:" namespace I've already created on the site.) --Michael Mol 21:34, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

But why the code to separate from the main text? So that the changes in the code would be reflected simultaneously in all languages? --DCamer 10:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. Otherwise, it becas a conflict resolution problem much like that of source control, but without the aid of automated toos. --Michael Mol 11:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Then it is possible to create the code in the various article and to refer to it through the template. {{Example:Code1}}. --DCamer 11:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Translated from earlier, Google Language Tools: Есть две проблемы с transclusion. Во-первых, примеры кода, должны быть отделены от содержимого страницы (о котором я уже считаю, должно произойти, лично), с английской и русской версии сайта transcluding от них. Во-вторых, transclusion, это не тривиально внести изменения в пример кода, вы должны перейти на страницу источников и внести изменения там. (Если это вторая часть не проблема, я бы уже обратились к первой части, разбив из примеров кода в "Пример:" имен я уже создал на сайте.) - Майкл Мол 21:34, 8 апреля 2010 (UTC) --Michael Mol 12:00, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Alternatively - you could create it through a template, here an example, bottom of the page, or on website MediaWiki. --DCamer 19:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Trying again. (I passed it backward and forward through Google until it came back saying what I was trying to say.): Есть две проблемы с transclusion. Во-первых, образцы должны быть отделены от содержимого страницы (о котором я уже считаю, должно произойти), с английской и русской версии сайта transcluding от них. Во-вторых, это не тривиально внести изменения в теле шаблона от страницы, использующие этот шаблон, надо перейти на страницу шаблона и сделать один изменим там. (Если второй половине не было проблем, я бы уже implemanted первую часть, разбив примеры кода из в "Пример:" пространство имен, что я уже создал на сайте.) --Michael Mol 18:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Rcode buttons

I dig it. Nice touch. --Mwn3d 01:51, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Slowly gearing towards prettifying things and improving site structure and layout. I think I need to use a better font, though. And I want the server to generate and cache the alternate sizes. And I want MW to handle size specifications in points, darnit! Each button is a 48k image, currently, but at 96x96px the Language button is a mere 8.4k, before and after pngcrush. --Michael Mol 01:58, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

AssaCom is spam user

I squelched the content of User:AssaCom because it was spam (it was apparently talking about Russian airlines according to Google Translate). Since that was content put there by the user, it was almost certainly a user created solely for spamming and you'll want to squelch the account ASAP. –Donal Fellows 15:16, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Pipe Dream

Is it possible to have a "Recent changes" for a category, or a selection of categories? Ideally, I'd like to be able to see the changes in Category:J or Category:Programming tasks, since I last logged in. Is that even feasible?

--DanBron 23:25, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Not with the current software set. If you can find the appropriate MediaWiki extension, I'd probably add it. (I myself have wanted a feed specific to the Talk: namespaces for a long time.) --Michael Mol 23:40, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually, using the MediaWiki API, you could filter recent changes however you liked, the only real limitation being that the API doesn't let you look back in time any further than Special:RecentChanges does. —Underscore (Talk) 00:20, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

[Solved] Rewording required?

In several places I can see this phrase: These tasks are not considered "unimplemented". Wouldn't it be better to say: These tasks are not considered "unimplementable". Or is it just a misunderstanding on my behalf? (English is not my first language). Wolf 11.May 2010 12:00h (GMT+2)

It says what it means, but the problem is that I wasn't talking about whether or not a task is implementable, but whether or not it counts towards a set of "unimplemented" tasks—a question of pride for some people. --Michael Mol 13:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I understand now, thanks. I have provided some code for the task "Sort stability" using the AutoHotkey programming language. The task shows up OK on the page for implemented tasks for AutoHotkey. How do I remove "Sort stability" from the list of "Not Considered" tasks, please? Or is that up to you to do?

Somewhere on that task page will be a reference to Template:Omit, with an argument of AutoHotKey. Find that bit and remove it. --Michael Mol 16:34, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

All done. Thank you again. Wolf 11.May 2010 18:51h (GMT+2)

Time constriction ?

Sorry, to bother you again. I have written some code for the task "Arbitrary-precision_integers_(included)" in the programming language AutoHotkey. Now my problem here is the following: the code runs on my PC for 26 hours and then spits out the correct result. I have used an implementation of BCD multiplication by AHK forum user Laszlo (permission has been granted to publish his code) together with my own implementation of "long powers", that held tight when tested with Euler Challenges. I am as sure as I can possibly be, that this code is correct (forum discussion starts with the second post from the top here: AHK forum, if you want to have a look). Now I think that pride thing you mentioned yesterday has got a grip on me too, so here is my question: Is there a time constriction at all for submissions to RosettaCode? I assure you that this is not some untested, half-baked code that gets thrown at RosettaCode, but it can be improved. Wolf 12.May 2010 14:32h (GMT+2)

No time constriction. --Michael Mol 13:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

But isn't a condition of that task that it is only solvable by languages that come with their own in-built implementation of arbitrary precision integers? If you are having to code it then it should not be included. --Paddy3118 14:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

You're correct. And this is a discussion better suited for that task's talk page. --Michael Mol 14:22, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Captcha's back?

Is the presence of the captcha a conseguence of something I am doing or whatever or it is back also for registered users? --ShinTakezou 17:05, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

It should be back for everyone, but only when someone makes an edit that adds an offsite link. Spambot registration is getting through the initial CAPTCHA, most likely as part of a people solver farm, but it's not as worth it for such attacks to solve CAPTCHAs for every spam edit. Sucks, but there it is. There might be an alternate solution, using random numbers of CAPTCHAs for registration, but that'd require modifying the SimpleCAPTCHA and/or ReCAPTCHA extensions. I can create a "skip captcha" privilege group, if people like, but it would require someone to go through and confirm users after one or two valid edits. --Michael Mol 17:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I would eventually like to become part of that privileged group, if you have the time to implement it. Specifically, I can no longer use the presence of captcha to remind me that I am not logged in at submit time, and I would like to get that back. But I have no problem waiting for 100 valid edits and 30 different days where I edit content (or whatever other filtering mechanism seems reasonable), if you want to automate it. --Rdm 18:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I think all currently-registered users could be put in that group, regardless; any spam accounts are already banned. Implementing the privilege group is technically easy, too. The problem comes from the need for a human judgement for new accounts. --Michael Mol 18:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I should note that currently I am required to fill out the recaptcha form even when I am signed in, and have added no links and the text of the section I am editing contains no links. --Rdm 15:02, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Ew. I'm surprised it's doing that. I'd rather deal with a couple more spammers. Went in and checked settings, changed some things. Let me know if it's still a problem. --Michael Mol 15:08, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I have made several edits, and (including this one) none have required I fill out the captcha form. Thank you! --Rdm 15:55, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

URLs should still require it, FYI. --Michael Mol 15:57, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Note, however, that now I do not need captcha to submit even when I am logged out (though I have not tried posting any URLs that way). --Rdm 12:04, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Avoiding spam URLs are the key issue, but I did like having all anon edits bring up CAPTCHAs. Don't have time to fix this week. Later. --Michael Mol 12:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Same for me, no ext link afair, but captchaed anyway. Last edit went smooth captchalessly, thanks —ShinTakezou 18:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Spammer?

Content of http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code_talk:Village_Pump looks spammy, like a test run for blog spam. Particularly telling is the fact that the author hasn't contributed anything else. You might want to just revert things back there and have a think about whether some other form of block should be applied… –Donal Fellows 12:16, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a wait-and-see approach. Individual users can be mass-rolled-back if necessary. I can see about re-enabling CAPTCHAs for all non-logged-in, but I really don't have the time right now to deal with anything short of an emergency situation. --Michael Mol 13:40, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Back to

I've tried to fix the page Pascal's triangle from irriverent edits by user Robertom, but noted too late that s/he deleted some implementation while adding his/her one! I think it is better to "revert" the page to the version before the Robertom's edits, and eventually add APL impl later. I believed I could do it by myself, but it seems I have no the right, or simply too (something) now to understand how I can do it ... I don't know who can, so writing here (maybe village pump would've been a better place?). Thanks --ShinTakezou 11:57, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe I have restored the missing edits (I restored AutoHotKey, BASIC and C). Basically, I just went back to older versions where they were there and copied and pasted them into the current verison. --Rdm 13:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 * [[User talk:Short Circuit/Problem with math after move]]
 = Put new stuff below here =
+==Contributions question==
+What does "top" mean in the "my contributions" list ? I think I could't figure it out so far! [[User:Ulrie|Ulrie]]
 ==Oops!==